This shows brought to you by Kings Ridge Elderberry Farm. Visit tkr farm.com. That's King the Kings Ridge Farm, tkr farm.com. And purchase your Elderberry needs from the Kings Ridge Elderberries. Use code WB10. That's waterbreak WB10 for 10% off of your first order. And as kind of a personal antidote here, me and my wife have used this Elderberry cocktail that they make is fantastic. And our kids love it. In fact, our kids are putting it in yogurt and all sorts of things. And we've had other flavors before that we not liked in this. And the cocktail that they put together for their Elderberry juice is fantastic. Go to tkr farm.com and support them. Hey, all, welcome to Waterbreak. I know it sounds like or feels like it's cross-balsic that this is actually a waterbreak episode here. Because we've got our waterbreak summit happening this weekend. And so our speakers are in town for the summit. So I'm going to real quick just go around and say a little name, but I'll let them introduce themselves. We got Dr. Tabitha here, of course, you know, our wife Annie, the water girl, and of course, you know, me, the water boy. We got John Green and we got Dr. Anthony Balduzzi. Did I get it? Balduzzi. Paul, we're rewinds. What did I say? You said John Green. I said John Green. Yeah, I mean this. I got John Denver here. Joe Green. We got Joe Green here. You guys know him even better than because he's been our show probably. You're probably one of our most prequel interviews. Three times, I think. Everything. Yeah. I don't even know why I said John. Joe, Joe Green, Dr. Anthony Balduzzi. That's my name. All right. Very good. I got it right. And everything. I'm bound to make a mistake at least somewhere. So they're in for our waterbreak summit this weekend and everything. And I actually just want to you want to say something? Well, you forgot our third speaker over here. I said Dr. Tabitha. Oh, you did. I'm sorry. He's started with me. Oh, we started with you. Okay, sorry. We're killing this. I'm killing it. Yeah. No, it's okay. So since our waterbreak summit, Dr. Tabitha speaking, Joel is speaking, Dr. Anthony speaking at the summit. And then we're doing a panel also with Ben Greenfield on Saturday afternoon. But I know very little about you guys. And I mean, besides like I called you guys and asked, are you not crazy? Okay, you got that question. I asked, you aren't going to say anything down. You probably got the, I think Dr. anything got that question, you know that kind of stuff. So I would actually love to hear y'all's stories on how you got into kind of the health and fitness industry. I'm going to start with the lady, Mrs. Dr. Tabitha. And you're actually, is your home in Michigan, right? You flew here from Michigan? I've lived there my entire life. Okay. So yeah, I am not a Mrs. Thank you very much. Okay, you're just a doctor. I'm just a doctor. Yeah. This is a plain old doctor. Yeah, when I got the call to be a part of this, I was really excited because I am on a mission to help women and men understand that there are deeper root cause issues driving your diseases. Yeah. I come from the world of disease. I didn't know health and wellness existed and the truth is. But you are a doctor and you didn't know health and wellness existed. Right? Surgeon, right? Yeah. And so that's kind of a big deal because we look to the white coats for our health, for answers. And the truth is they can diagnose you, they can manage your disease, but they cannot help you heal and reclaim that vitality looking for. So God had to take me back all the way, break me down and show me the truth about things. So honestly, it's been an incredible journey, but I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. You know, I'm a high school dropout teenage mom. I was on Medicaid and food stamps. I come from nothing. Wow. Wow. Yeah. And so I had a very traumatic pregnancy and delivery. Okay. It was explained to me. A lot of procedures, invasive things as a young girl. Yeah. And my doctor made it clear that I was a stinking class citizen. Like you're getting paid 22 cents on the dollar to take care of you. And really? Yeah. It was a hard time. Yeah. Yeah. And were you a Christian back then? I was raised Catholic. So I knew Jesus was my savior. Yeah. And that he loved me. What I was taught was you party all week, Friday, Saturday, and repent on Sunday. And then you do that to you that cycle. Like you're good Catholic. Yeah. And you don't actually get edified or sanctified. Yeah. Didn't learn that until much later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My mom grew up Catholic. Yeah. And I love Catholicism. So many aspects of it. But I just had a lot of wrong thinking, a lot of bad programming. And so I had this traumatic delivery, a come to Jesus moment after I had a fourth degree tear. If any women listening know what that is, like I was destroyed, I had a four steps delivery. And God said, you need to use your voice. You need to ask for another choice. And I honestly had no idea what that meant. But eventually it led me to going back, getting my GED, going to medical school, because you had a doctor, doing all the things, getting the salary, the 401K, all the accolades. But I left Jesus in the delivery room. I did it all on my own to the point where I absolutely just broke my back, because I was trying to carry everything myself. Yeah. And he got put me on my back for seven days, unable to function. My attention. Wow. He's like, are you ready to do it my way? Yeah. You've destroyed everything of your life. You have failed marriages, failed body, all the things. And so I've been partnering with him for about the past six years. And life is so much better. Here's the truth of it. I was a wild child. I thought freedom came from rebellion and doing whatever he wanted. Yeah. And freedom comes from surrender and obedience. Mm-hmm. That has changed everything about me. So I am just on this mission to help women realize, number one, you're not supposed to carry it all alone. You're actually supposed to have God alongside you on your health journey, relying on him, putting it to the foot of Jesus every single day. And the doctors are not going to heal you. Your body was created to heal itself. As a surgeon, I didn't actually do the healing. It's the body that does it. We need to start respecting our bodies and treating them the way that God called us to. And that is how you're going to heal. Forward. Yeah. And so now, go ahead, baby. I was just going to say crazy story. It's a great story. That's an amazing story. Wow. I mean, for you guys, I mean, it's incredible. You told us at lunch, you mentioned like being a surgeon, like I think running a all thing in a hospital. But coming from nothing, like I was a food stamp kid. So I get all your food, same kid. Oh, yeah, we were on welfare. We were poor. Yeah. Yeah, sort of come from that and then self-educate and become a surgeon. I mean, wow. Right. And then to leave it that part there. God was like, and we're doing a new thing. How could I give up that salary, that security, that 401K, that my family was just in awe and they couldn't imagine my grandma would say things like, you have so much money, I can't even fathom what you do with it. And God was like, you got to give it all up. That's what I'm calling you to do. And so, yeah, being a real Christian is scary. And it calls for you to walk on the water when the waves are crashing and you can't trust, but you have to. You just have to. Yeah. It's so worth it on the other side. And so at lunch, you were talking about one of the reasons why you felt called to stop being a surgeon was because you started hearing about health and wellness and root causes. And so you kind of basically, you were doing surgery on your patients and thinking like, I think the problem might be even deeper than this. Basically, is what happened to you. I've heard the story. It was a Cali casee means. Is it Casey? Is it Casey? Yeah, it's similar kind of similar story. Whoever the sister was. I know they have to do the casey casey casey. Casey, that's right. Your story does remind me of her. Of her where she was just a surgeon and found out about like, you know, root causes and kind of deeper way of thinking about health. And she's like, I can't, I can't cut people up anymore because, I mean, it's likely they shouldn't be here in the first place on the on the table. Well, literally, that's what was happening to me. I took the time off to have back surgery. I had herniated ruptured discs, had all the stuff, took the six weeks off. Like a good patient went back three nights straight on call. My third night during a delivery, I re-interested and I couldn't move. I had to be carried home. And the surgeon said, oh, it's like lace potato chips. You can't have just one. We'll just put some rods and screws in your back. You'll be fine. You might herniate above or below and need more surgeries. And all I could think of was like my endometriosis patients and how I would say, we'll see you next year because that's probably how long you'll have relief. And then we'll do it again. And it's just this insanity of like, what are we doing? So I was like, time out. There's no way you're putting this hardware in my back. This doesn't even make any sense. And that's when I took four months off and found Amy Myers and Mark Hyman and all these people. And they're talking about like your gut health, determining everything. And I was like, what? I started thinking about the endometriosis surgeries and how the bowel was always scarred to the uterus and the tubes and the ovaries. And I would spend hours dissecting the bowels away from these pelvic organs, thinking it was all the uterus's fault. When in reality, it was the gut's fault. The gut was seeping inflammatory chemicals into the pelvis. All these cytokines and interleukins and creating all the symptoms. Dr. Tabitha, I'm interrupting you real quick. Amy is alarm. It's going off. It's an alarm. Interphone. Black bag right there. So sorry. Yep, you can just get her phone and turn the alarm off. Sorry about that. That's my take your thyroid reminder. Keep talking. It fell to us, baby. Yeah, fail. Fail. Yeah. Okay, sorry Dr. Tabitha, keep going. Yeah. And so I just had a lot of epiphanies. I realized that so much of what I was doing was stemming from the gut, all these GYN issues, like fibroids and endometriosis and infertility and heavy periods and PMS and PCOS. And like once you know something, you can't unknow it. You can't get back. Yeah. Someone like back in my job, seeing patients again. And I think I lasted about two months. I was like, I can't do this. Yeah. Yeah. What you're eating, how you're sleeping, like what's going on in your relationships? Are you getting the sunlight in your eyes? Are you grounding all of it? And I did the unthinkable and I left. Very helpful. As a great story. So speaking of a gut, since you already talked about gut, I'm bringing Joe Greene into this. And you've of course been on our show a number of times. But we'd love to hear a little more of your backstory and how you got into particularly gut health. Because that's like who dreams when they're a kid? I'm a get into gut health. When I grow up, I'm going to do gut health. So would love to hear a little bit of back your journey into where you're right now. Yeah. I was a lifelong consumer of what you would call the really fitness movement. So my mom had a big interest in speaking to that mic. Just get into it. My mom had a really big interest in exercise. And so I just took that up from like the age of five. I would do juggling routines. I kind of grew up with the running craze and then the mainstream. You know, bodybuilding. I kind of grew up with that. And I was a consumer. So in the early 90s, when a bunch of new stuff, it was a big transition period. Betrex came out, meal replacements, and MCTs came out. A bunch of stuff came out that was kind of new. And I was just an experiment. I was an early adopter experiment. So I was experimenting with stuff. In the early 90s, you're talking. Yeah. So the one notable thing that happened to me, which I probably would not be here today if it wasn't for that thing, was I did a meal replacement called Metrex, like in early 92. And I just got healed to the bon. I mean, I was I was wrapped. I was four or five percent body fat. Everybody was like, what are you doing? What's your state? Great. You know, right. I did that for like four years. And then what happened was there was, which I now know is the weight loss rebound effect, the compensation effect. I had this massive perturbation of hunger hormones. What I know now would be you've inverted leptin and growling, out of benign to leptin ratios. And I just started eating like crazy. I didn't know what I'd done. So I stopped me off in the steering, trying to figure out what I'd done. And I started doing every diet out there, just kind of trying to, uh, to renormalize things. And so I did a bunch of stuff really. So I did like, um, kind of, I had my, my whole clean phase, you know, just eat raw whole. I had that phase. And then I had my macro counting phase. I had a bunch of different phases. And they were all kind of similar in that, you know, I'd, I'd be really lean. And then that would be this rebound effect. And one story short, I, uh, right about 2000. I got laid off from my dot com job. And I started making websites for fitness influencers, because I was kind of like, I was around that circle. And I learned a lot. Um, I started, I started a nutrition website, actually just selling stuff. And I learned a lot about the, the back story of fitness. And it was very disillusioning. So all these people I'd grown up worshiping, and I kind of learned they were all on steroids. And everybody was like, my beauty raw and, you know, all that I was dead. I thought everybody, I don't, yeah. So, um, so right about 2003, I went to work for this tech company. I wound up running the company. And I went into that job super fit. I mean, I had time to work out. So I was, I was, you know, very, very lean, very fed. And suddenly, like, having a real job changed my life, where all the advice had been taken all these years, didn't really work when you were under like real life circumstance. 85 jobs and stuff like that. Yeah, or like 14 hour a day startup, like, didn't work. So I got fat. And by the end of that run, I was like 260 pounds. And, you know, I was still lifting. So I was, I was huge. Yeah. Much bigger than I am now. But, but huge and fat. So, you know, big chest, big arms, big gut. Strong fat. Yeah. That whole thing. Yeah. So, um, I came out of that in 2006. And I left the tech industry. And you could say, like, kind of punched out from it. And the dirty little secret of fitness or health or biohacking is everybody came from tech. At like your Brian Johnson. Yeah. Like, there's a lot of people that I know now that have, had very big careers in health and fitness. And we were all together in the same industry. We all know each other. So, the thing that I was really passionate about at the time was search engine optimization was a big deal. And there were all these marketers who'd taken over the discussion. And they were just, you know, getting top ranking and everything and commenting during the discussion. And they didn't know what they were talking about. And I had 30 years down to this stuff. And it kind of like really pissed me off. So I set out to kind of get the number one side on the web for weight loss. And I just put tons and tons of money into search engine optimization. What was the URL? Lookcut.com. Lookcut. Yes. You know that one doctor, Anthony? No. Okay. That's a good URL. So, I became, um, I became number two behind WebMD, really in the top seven most of the time for weight loss. And a few things happened. Number one, um, that was 2004, 2006 was the beginning of the modern era of the microbiome. So what happened was acrimansi was just over in 2004. And then Dr. Jeffrey Gordon in 2006 wrote these groundbreaking articles. And I published the very first articles to the public on those, on those studies. So I'll pull them up on the stage tonight. We're talking, um, and at the same time, I put some protocols to work that were kind of based on what the stuff I was writing about. So I went from like 29 to 212 in seven days, just tuning the microbiome. And it was the most amazing transformation I'd ever had. My energy skyrocketed. A bowel movement smelled like men fall like, I mean, it's a thing. It really is a thing. It's like, yeah. Yeah. We call it the equestrian bowel movement. The equestrian? Yeah. So, um, green. So right about that time, I was, if you'll see it tonight, it was called longevity based fitness, which today we think of as biohacking. But nobody was interested. All they wanted was, I just want to know how to lose 10 pounds, dude. So I took all that knowledge and I created this nutrition system, um, called the Veepe Nutrition System. And it was a software. And it was the world's very first, uh, program based on the microbiome for weight loss. And so we went corporate wellness and got lucky. Had some huge clients. First client was a major hospital chain in Pennsylvania. And we did a, we did a trial with them where they had, so what I found out the hard way is, the most unhealthy people are people who work in hospitals. So like doctors, physiologists, nurses, because these crazy schedules, they worked, they were all in really bad health. So we were lucky enough to work with this, um, this hospital chain called Excel Health in Pennsylvania. And they were like the biggest employer in the county. They had like five hospitals. They had a really good underpinning. They had a wellness center that could do a lot of measurements. So they did, they did all the measurements. We put them through my system. And it was pretty impressive. The results were pretty amazing. Um, it made the newspaper. It became a big deal. So next thing, you know, um, city of Phoenix, we wound up doing this massive engagement with city of Phoenix. And thousands of people came through this thing. And the, for me, the thing that was very interesting at the time was, I had a software. And so I was knee deep in the research. I was harvesting data every day from the software. And I was implementing changes like literally just real time trial and error. And because I had so much data pouring in, I just rapidly figured out what really worked. And so by, and so that led to a bunch of other things. So my system wound up on the Dr. Phil show. We did a bunch of engagements. Had these incredible results. One lady went from 330, lost 100 pounds in 90 days, was on 22 meds, went off all meds in 90 days. Completely normal, completely perfect blood work. Purely from diet, no exercise, just purely by tuning in. Where I could buy them. So, um, and then that led to, um, by 2013, there were no gut gurus. None. I had the world's largest body of outcomes. I had over 16,000 people that had gone through these protocols. So I kind of just had a 10 year head start. Um, and that led to a bunch of stuff I got noticed. A question nutrition brought me in to do like kind of to be like an expert in my little corner. And what question nutrition had was all this round table of supergeniuses that all were experts in their field. And my little thing was, well, what happens is when you have a dysbiotic gut, you're going to get lipopolysaccharide leaking to the serum. You're going to get macrophage translocation into adipose tissue. You're going to get the M2 M1 phenotype switch. Blah blah, this big thing. So I got tired of explaining this thing. So I just, I decided I'm going to write a book. So that book became the immunity code. Yeah. And then that book broke the internet in 2020. It went on Ben Greenfield show and just exploded. And much of the modern era biohacking came from that book. So that book put acrimansia on the map. The modern focus befittled bacteria acrimansia, that all came from that book. Okay. Um, the modern focus on spreading came from that book. So much stuff came from that book. Um, and then from there, kind of the rest is history, I guess. Okay. So can I say thank you? Seriously, I mean, what I'm doing right now is from your work. So, oh, incredible. Ash, thank you. Did you, how long have you known of Joel? So I didn't know of him personally, but I know his work. Yeah. That's the foundation of everything I do. So that's really cool to hear that. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And so, um, you're, um, you do coaching him and like, what do you, what do you do? Everybody asks that. What do you do, Joel? I do. Research and write. I'd like to get back to that. Right now, I'm at that stage of a company where your, your stuff is mostly behind the scenes, you know, like, um, so, while I was very short, um, I, I had this, uh, when I, when I, when everything kind of took off, I started certifying coaches and, you know, um, was doing coaching myself, you know, trying to all that stuff. And I don't do any of that anymore. I just, let me focus now as I've just paired everything back to one thing, which is, um, really just focused around the, um, the gut reset and the diet. That's the diet's called the way. And all the stuff that came out of the immunity code is just kind of congealed into that, um, which really is basically helping people understand a few basic things. Like, if you can learn how to steer a immune cell phenotype, if you can reset the gut, and if you can just learn a few very basic things, then you're going to create these massive shifts over time, massive shifts. And that's the problem most people have is, um, they're getting all the advice that comes from people who make their living being fit. And what those people who make their living being fit don't understand is none of that's going to translate because people in the real world, their time goes to zero very often and the stress goes through the roof. So what they need is a foundation that's non-fitness centric that's more really focused on the most powerful mechanisms in the body, which is the immune system. So just bring me coffee. Anybody want some coffee? Yeah, just bring it. Yeah, just bring it. There's no milk. Do we have milk downstairs if they want some? I'm good. Then I'll take I'll take Dr. Tabitha. Yeah, sure. Do you want some, Sandy? Yeah, I would love some. Okay, here you go. Let's take this to Dr. Am. Thank you. I'm good. Okay, you got some. Yeah, I'll take cream too. Thank you. I just want to throw north northwest coffee is the best coffee. I just want to say this what Joel is just saying is such it's such a good reminder that food is just like the biggest health input. I mean, we eat how many times a day, how many days a week, how many weeks in a month. I mean, like, you know what I mean? Like I just feel like people are always looking for something sexier than that. But food is huge. It is. It's super powerful. And we put it in our body every on average. It's a literal information every day uses. And if you want to work out, you have to give it a third. And if you want to stay off an operating table, probably need to look at your food and how the effects of it compound over time. Okay, at the end of the day, the math is always going to win. So when you look at where is the greatest number of inputs over a lifetime, it's around eating. That's the finger going to do the most. You're going to eat the most more than anything else. More than anything else. Yeah, by far, right? So, so real quick, before we bring Dr. Anthony into this, last question here, gives me your two-minute spill on why the gut is so important. And why has it not been important before 2020, I guess? I don't know. Well, the simple way to understand it is that we've had a bunch of parcel truths. We've been told that, you know, your metabolism matters, your genome matters, but that's an impartial, that's a half truth. The real truth is you have three metabolisms, you have three genomes, you have the microbiome genome, you have the mitochondrial genome, you have the human genome, they all interact, you have three metabolisms, you have the human metabolism, you have the microbiome metabolism, and then you have immune cell metabolism. All three of those interact. And so, long story short, if you're going to look at like, well, where's my entry point? How can I affect all of that with the least amount of input? So, minimal input, maximal results. What you find is that in starting with the gut, the metabolites from the microbiome metabolism, impact immune cells, and then the immune cell acts as a crux rudder, crux rudder over the entire body. So, immune cells have a disproportionate weight over the rest of the body, and when you affect the microbiome, you in turn affect immune cells, and then you steer the whole body. And can I just say like, when I realized we're made from the dirt, God made us from the dust, we are more microbiome than we are human DNA, like we have to respect that fact, that they are running the show. You know, even though we can't see them, they're microscopic. That is why the gut is everything. Okay, Dr. Anthony, I would love to hear, I know I've heard a little bit of it, but would love to hear a few more details, how you got into this world. You live in Arizona right now? I live in Scottsdale, Arizona. You were a, were as you basically alluded to me today, an Italian New Yorker. And you said, I left my Italian in this behind in New York, and I'm now in Arizona. I feel like that's fair. Okay. You know, I don't know. Like, family is from Stereocuse, New York, or state. I'm from a family of Italian grocers. So yeah, I mean, just Italian culture, a lot of food. And that's where I was born. And I think back to my childhood, I had a father who just busted his butt to put food on the table. It worked really hard. But we were in New York at a time when there was a big tech boom, where computer leasing was big. He was working a long hours sleeping at the office. When I was around three years old, Dad fell out of bed, had a grandmull seizure. And it's like scary to see someone sees like that, you know, totally out of control. Took him to the hospital. He got an MRI and he got a cancer diagnosis, brain tumor. And so, changes your whole family dynamic like right there. It's like Peter gets your affairs in order. And so I remember looking at my mom and she was just terrified. My little brother was just born. I was three. And so my dad didn't want to die. So he went through all the conventional treatment, you know, chemotherapy, radiation, two brain surgeries. He fought for around six years. He ends up dying when he's 42 years old. So how do you? Nine. Nine. So pivotal moment in my early life. Massive pain. Deep questions, you know, like kind of rocked my faith. I was grew up in, you know, kind of a Catholic household like God. Why? Yeah. But I also got to see how important health was. Like I learned a lesson that many people don't learn to learn later in life that health is like foundational. You know, that's all my family really cared about. It's like, how do you keep dad alive? And in the immense pain that I had, one of the beautiful blessings is my mom gave me a pair of my dad's old dumbbells. It's kind of like my temperate day, right? Yeah. So it'd be beautiful. And I would hide him under my bed. I had this little walkman I put on some music at night and I was just trained. The walkman, right? Yes. Oh, I thought you were younger than that. I just look good. You just, you just, you just did it yourself. I just look good. Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, so I would listen to the walkman and I would train. I didn't know exactly what I was doing, but I knew I felt better like when I was moving my body and I could kind of like take all this emotion and this anger and and translate into something productive and I did that for years. What was your tape? Um, you know, I, okay, so this is, no, this is perfect to be here at this, at this particular conference and time. I, I would listen to a song from a band called Godsmack. Oh, yeah. Called I Stand Alone. Okay. Which was a very like perfectly fitting song and I'll, oh, we've this through, but it was kind of like an angry like egoic song that kind of like captured my pain at the time. And I was just like, shit, I'm going to make something of this like, I don't have a dad. I'm going to step up. I will be there for my mom, my little brother. Like, why does this hurt? I don't want it to hurt. And so I trained. Yeah. Did it for years? I get into high school and turns out that like at this point, I'm kind of jacked. You know, I've been working on the dark for a couple years. You know, I'm like, bad man. Working. Yeah. I mean, really what happened was you, you hit Peerbury. I mean, that's a good thing. But, you know, I've been doing like hundreds of push-ups a night for like years. Wow. I went to an all boys, all boys Catholic high school. I started packing my lunch at 5 a.m. carrying a gallon of water. And like, I had an early identity of being a fit jack guy. Like, in this was a time when metrics was coming out. Yeah. Also mags were around. You know, I wanted to get big and. So what year was this? You start getting the high school? This was in the 2000s. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah, and first job was as a personal trainer. And I just love fitness. And I think when you find an early passion for something, and you get good at it, you get some recognition, you can build around that. So I was really passing in fitness. And so I went into competitive bodybuilding for around 10 years. I got I was successful. I traveled around the country. I was in a magazine when I was 21. Won a national championship. And it was just like a really pool thing. And I got exposed to this whole alternate world of like, oh, shit, you can just follow your passion. Yeah. And you could go to fun places and see fun things. And I also started to codify my knowledge into little ebooks and stuff like that. When I graduated college, give me a time stamp there. This was this was now we're in late 2000. Oh, where are we at? We're like over 20, I don't know where we're at. I'm asking you to. 2015. Yeah. Okay. So we, I'm sorry. University of Pennsylvania. Okay. Yeah. So I studied nutrition neuroscience. UP. University of Pennsylvania. Yeah. And I did some work interestingly in a lot of these these labs where we're testing a lot of the early GLP one type drugs that are on the market now. So yeah, we're really like learning about a different kinds of things like that. I also worked on some research related to like myostatin and muscle building. And so that was fascinating. And at the same time, like I had this deep appreciation for how lifestyle was so pivotal to health and to well being, you know, I had this like contrasted being at Penn, research university, definitely pharmaceutical, like driven in the sense that a lot of the funding was coming from that area. At the same time, I knew that if you eat right, if you train, if you sleep, you can create phenomenal changes in the body. So it's kind of like in these two worlds. Start my first website. Kind of in memory of my dad is called Fitfather Project. Still it exists today. 2016 issues about we're right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the mission was to translate all the things I'd learned to help busy guys over 40 get a healthy and fit. And that website has existed until today. Over 60,000 guys have gone through our online program. You know, tens of thousands of people have like transformed very successfully. We have Fitmother Project as well. And I help busy parents translate all this health and fitness things into sustainable routines. That's very good, man. Yeah. That's cool. There's a huge need for that. Press it. Yeah. Yeah. So Fitfather Project is the website. Yeah, they fitfather.com or Fitfather.com. Yeah. And I think what is unique about what we do is we make a fit real life in a phenomenal way. Obviously, the nutrition is super sustainable. Like all the principles are baked in, time efficient workouts. But we really address like the integration component between your family, your faith, your core values, the mindset that goes along with it. Like we have a bun as information, but like getting traction, staying accountable, being plugged into community. Like this is what we do and what we have. Well, that's great. So thank you guys for coming to the Moscow IDA. Great stories. hometown and university of Idaho. Go Vandals. Yeah. For the summit, I want to just kind of end here. And we'd love to, I will start back with you, Dr. Anthony. Go back this way. And just kind of talk about like, you know, basic fitness routine, kind of how what you do. And just kind of lay out some examples of what people have been. I'll share this tomorrow in my talk on muscle and longevity. I believe there's like three aspects of training that people ideally should incorporate. You need tension work. You got to load the muscles with high tension in a safe way. That's like joint friendly. You need speed work. You need to activate the nervous system in a fast way. This could be sprinting. This could be jumping. This could be throwing. This could be slamming. Like this uniquely different than tension work. And then you need some, you know, balance and coordination work that ideally is done at such a pace that it gives you some cardio metabolic effect. And like these are the things that keep the nervous system strong, muscle strong. And so how does that translate? Classic strain training once or twice a week. That's multi joint movements, squats, deadlifts, bench, pull-ups, shoulder press. And you could do a full body workout once or twice a week. Speed work, you know, ideally you can work up to doing things like sprints, running, biking, doing something that's explosive once a week. And then these these caterpillar dumbbell flows like complex training once or twice a week. So I'd say I do more because I love it. Yeah, sure. You know, but I think it's not more than two hours of exercise a week, but it's very intentional. So basically someone can get away with, you know, you said four hours correct. I said two. Two. Some sort of like four workouts a week at 30 minutes. That'd be a phenomenal setup. That'd be a phenomenal setup. And I'd say if someone wanted to get an amazing shape, maybe they do an upper body workout and a lower body workout that's like classic strain training, spread throughout the week. They do one more like conditioning cardio style workout. And ideally there's some speed work somewhere in there, something that allows the nervous system to move fast. Yep. There's so many ways to do it. Yeah. Like, you know, this was just that's one way to do it. There's so many ways. You said balance in coordination, balance coordination. Give me an example of what a balance coordination exercise. Single leg motion, something that involves rotation, something that might be on an unstable surface. Something that is challenging the body in these rotational slings and movements. And like this is brain training. This is not muscular training. Our sense of balance in coordination is really just like our propriofe session, like where you are in space. And we lose this unless we train it. Yeah. There are many guys that are in the gym that are still very strong. That might be able to bench press 300, 400 pounds in the 60s, but actually don't have good balance in coordination. And it goes along with like cognitive decline. Yeah, it's just training things. We also know from the research that like people who are musicians or play stuff with their hands, or cerebellum is being worked. So they have good like coordination. It keeps the brain healthy and young. Your exercise can become more than just, oh, I'm trying to be fit. It can be training for your whole cognitive nervous system balance and all these things. Yeah, that's great. Okay, so the kind of one thing I'll say is like, actually like one type of workout we do that's amazing. We call it metabolic resistance training. You can take a pair of dumbbells and kettlebells and you're just straining together like five motions back to back. So maybe you do a set of five swings, kettlebell dumbbell swings, front rack them into five squats straight into five shoulder presses, drop out into five rows, then into five pushups. So that would be a flow to do all those would maybe take you about a minute, minute and a half. Okay. And then you could rest. And then maybe you do like five or six cycles of these. Five, five, five, five. The reason this is very helpful for for busy parents is that you're working functional range of motion. You're using dumbbells or kettlebells, which are very accessible. You're getting strength and cardio work all in once. And it's like not that threatening. It's not as threatening as like go to the gym, do bench press, then do dead lifts, then do squats. Like and you hit a lot of these aspects of training. So we do workouts like that and it's very helpful for people. Super. Joel, let's go to you, man. You do a lot of gut exercises. Three sets of 10 of gut and out. No, that's funny. I was on another podcast talking about training the feet and then one of the comments and YouTube was like, Hey, man, I'm going to go hit the bench. What about you? I'm going to get my big toe. That's great. Yeah, very similar to Anthony's talking about just probably say it a little bit different way. He's more eloquent than me. So I'm probably not going to say it as well. But so I have a foundation that I try not to compromise, which is mostly mobility, centric, mostly mobility and youth, I call it youthful, youthful movements. So what I noticed just over my lifetime being sort of like raised in the spotty building thing was that the farther along I went, everybody was just sort of dropping like flies, like all these people that I really admired, were either dying or behind the scenes were just in terrible, terrible health. Like, they had, they might have looked good, but their bodies were not youthful. They weren't youthful in the sense that like anything you had to do when you were young, they couldn't do without tearing every muscle in their body. So kind of what, when I really got into this stuff full time, what came out of that was emphasizing just a very few things as a foundation that to me that I thought was missing. So there's a few things I don't compromise on, which is at bedtime every night, I'll do a series of yoga flows, which it's amazing how that works. We've had people do that who had no flexibility, no mobility, and just six months later, like I'm talking people that couldn't even get their palms to their knees, they can get their palms in the ground in six months by doing it. So my wife, when we first met, started doing that, and it's just amazing how that keeps the body youthful, just the everyday piece of it. The other piece is usually like some stairs that I'll run, like some BL2 max stuff, just really trying to just push the body very hard, cardiovascular-wise. So that stuff I try not to compromise on, and then the next layer that I'll add into that is just a couple days a week of bodybuilding stuff I call it the beach muscles. So I'll go and do that. I just love that stuff. I love doing that stuff. So I'll go and do a couple days of that stuff. One or two days usually. And then the stuff that really gets the juice is more the sprint trainings. I'll try and usually have about one day a week where I do that, or if I'm trying to train for like a competition, I'll start doing something every day, but it's different in that respect. But the stuff that's usually there would be one day a week of where I'm sprint training, but most of that workout is stuff with bands and stuff with. So it's kind of in the school of a guy named Marvin Renevich, who really kind of created an entire new way of training. If you look at what Christian McCaffrey does, it's all that kind of stuff. And so it's acceleration, deceleration, just training the body to basically be able to handle rapid compression, rapid deceleration, because that's what goes when you get old is the ability to stop really fast. So it's usually with bands. It's a lot of stuff with bands where like maybe I'm what's called a ure where you'll take a band, you put it in between a squat rack and then you're sprinting forward with one leg and then pushing back and just stuff like that. And then usually some stuff like just high speed, just flat out max stuff like either on a skill mill, or from getting really serious. I'll try and do that on a track. So that's stuff's harder to do. And so you have to be super, super careful about getting injured with that kind of stuff. But yeah, that's kind of it. And like what's your hours a week that you're doing? On average, probably, I would say about two hours. Yeah. So he's hitting it. In the ballpark, yeah. Yeah, that's good. I mean, because the way you describe it actually sounds like you're doing way more. It sounds longer. Yeah. Well, so the so the beach muscle stuff isn't long at all. Like I don't I don't do these marathon gym sessions anymore. That stuff's pretty good. It's about 30 minutes to do that kind of stuff. And I don't need to do much anymore. Like if I want to put muscle on, it happens really fast. And I don't even want to do that anymore. So I don't only train for that. The harder stuff is more the sprint training, just because you have to, it depends on how finely tuned I am. If I'm really tuned, then I have to invest much less time. If I'm sort of like coming off an injury and then it takes a lot more time. So yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Tabitha. Let's hop over to you. All right. Oh my gosh. I'm so impressed with you guys. Just got to say that. I am here to represent the Paramanopausal woman. Yeah. Yeah. Our situation is a little bit different. You know, if you have been physically active or in shape your whole life, you are going to function completely different than someone who's been sedentary. Yeah. And even though I tried to be physically active and work out, I had a good 10 or 15 years where my only movement was running to the OR or driving a hundred miles an hour. Yeah. Maybe that kind of thing. And so I just had a lot of stressful activity, not healthy activity, right? And so when I started getting into shape again, I was starting way further back. You know, and so that is the woman that we speak to is like, okay, I have a desk job. I'm not really working out. Where do I even start? Because it's intimidating to go to the gym or to a Pilates class. I have patients who are like, I'm not doing anything in front of anyone. I'm not putting yoga pants on. It's common. Yeah. Women really struggle with us. Yeah. And even if you can get to the point where you're working out and you're getting healthy, we still have this hormonal thing that we have to deal with. So like, I was doing hit training and living at the gym and I loved it and I was feeling super fit and toned and then the hormones started to tank and the nervous system was going crazy. So I had to transition over to Pilates, which incorporates your breathing with your movements and that can be really helpful and you're laying down most of the time to do your movements. Yeah. And so it's a whole different way of engaging your body and that really got rid of my inflammation. That was happening from hit training and all of that and I got toned and fit again and then my estrogen really dropped and I got such bad tendonitis. I couldn't, right? I couldn't even click the mouse. Really? And I had to give up working out for about six months. I mean, I could have done lower body stuff but you know, I was mentally defeated and when you're going through that hormonal transition, your energy levels are really low and your mood changes. You have a lot of drive or motivation. And so this is what I see with a lot of women. Is there in one of these scenarios of like an injury has taken me out of frozen shoulder or something like that? And so we really have to just get to a place where we give ourselves some grace and we say, you know what? We're doing the best we can. What is going to work in this season and you have to be okay with doing something different. But what I would say with these gentlemen, what they hit on was variety is essential. Like if you're trying to do the same thing every day, our body is brilliant. It will just find that new homeostatic point and so the weight won't continue to come off. It won't continue to make gains. You have to change it up just like you have to have diversity with your food each season. You have to have diversity with your workouts. You have to get muscle confusion and keep it guessing. And so that's what I have found works best for me is I kind of switch it up between stretching yoga activities, Pilates, going in the gym and lifting weights and doing all these things and really focusing on my nervous system because for a lot of women, we just we got too much going on up here because you guys, I love you to death, but you only think about one thing at a time. Jim, you're thinking about what you're lifting next and what movement you're going to do. We're freaking doing the grocery shopping and who's picking up the kids and what outfit am I wearing from my podcast interview tomorrow? Like I am mind dumping like crazy at the gym. It was just different. Like I really need to pay attention to that and honor the fact that my nervous system could easily go into overdrive. And so just respectfully, women are not little men. You know, we're not lesser men. We're just different. So I think that part of the conversation is important when we talk about working out. So you said there's a connection between like your estrogen levels and tendonitis. Oh my god. One of the biggest most common symptoms is joint pain, frozen shoulder, really decreased mobility. Yeah. Yeah. And doctors don't get it. No, people just think it's random. Yeah. This is this is just one small example of why we're giving her like so much time to talk about this tomorrow because it's not tomorrow because it's such an issue and people don't know. I just want to add in really quickly that to your I know exactly what you're talking about. I've personal trained for almost 20 years now. And one of the reasons over the last five years, I've taken such a hard turn towards nutrition and lifestyle is because so many women in midlife would come to me and like I want everyone to squat and clean and jerk and do the fun stuff. That's what I love. That's what I like teaching people. But I mean, they were in no condition to basically exercise at all. Like just so unhealthy or monelly so dysregulated, not sleeping, not eating. Like, you know what I mean? So I just, okay, well, been the exercise. I mean, like you're a you're a disaster. You're eating the standard American. Yeah. I mean, we're so inflamed. You cannot work out. You won't know. Yeah. Ability to heal or recover afterwards. And there's our bodies. Now we struggle so stressed out. So we'd have to come up with a plan that had layers where it's like, okay, yeah, five a.m. Crossfit. If you're sleeping 10 hours a night and you're not stressed and you're eating it, okay, you know, but women can do hard things. I train hard, but like you can't be doing this right now. You know, so it's usually like a journey and it would often take, it could take a solid year or more to get their bodies in a place where especially intense exercise was actually a net positive for them. So I know what you're talking about. And it's good to frame it so that's like, Hey, nothing is necessarily good or bad floating in the air. Everything is kind of contextual. You know, I mean, anything can be good or bad, but it's the context of the person and their health and where they're at and their stress and everything really makes a difference. So I feel yeah. I want to teach women is that if you want to lose weight, it's your diet exercise is for strength and longevity and flexibility and balance. But for a woman to lose weight, they have to change their diet. Like I see women drop all kinds of weight just by diet and fasting alone. And then we bring in the activity once they feel better and they're not as inflamed and they can tolerate exercise. Yeah, tolerate. Tolerates the right word. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel yeah. Totally different. Yeah. Did you have a question? No, I actually think you're bringing up such good points. It's not popular to say, but I think in so many ways fitness has done a huge disservice to the overall picture in summer's backs. Having come from that work, having come from the sick of fan, like, you know, follower of that. And it's just because exactly what you're talking about, you know, with layers and kind of what we're all talking about here is there's a missing foundation and that foundation doesn't look like fitness. It looks it looks like other things. It looks like maybe youthful things like mobility, flexibility, yoga, it looks like very little inputs of small things that are easy to maintain, like a minute here, a minute there. And it doesn't look like fitness, but but that that delta over years and years is is colossal. Yeah. Absolutely. I want to think on that. I think in Western America where we commoditize and package things like we've made fitness look like it's a 45 minute workout in this setting with this context with this routine. But like for that woman you described who's inflamed who maybe doesn't feel ready to exercise, guarantee you would get phenomenal metabolic benefit of doing micro workouts throughout the day. Like if she could do accumulate 100 body weight squats throughout the course of the day in different ways, it would change the parameters. Like we know the research on people do walk after dinner, they get better glycine control. That's freaking walking, but it expresses the glut-floor receptors on muscle cells and create some degree of tension and improve circulation. And so it's like we have these just very rigid thinking about how things should be where we could be spreading exercise throughout there. Is a beautiful thing about exercise about how it interplays with food, is it changes the metabolic parameters massively. You get nutrient partitioning happening when you are exercising and creating that stimulus. Stimulus needs to be smart, but there's just like artful ways to do it. And they don't have to be like so black and white. That's a great point. Jill, didn't you invent the trigger session? Well, it came out of necessity. After the humidity code was published, a few people started lifting it, calling it micro exercise. I called it the integrated interval. It just came out of the back. Yeah, it just came out of the reality for me in the mid-2000s of the only way I had time to exercise was 30 second interval here and just spreading those across the day. Yeah, and there are stretches that it saved me. I mean, gosh, I have stories there, but yeah. Yeah, well, I've taken, I totally agree with you. And usually with, I mean, depending on how bad someone's health is, it depends on them. But I always start these stressed out bodies with walking and then either some form a very slow, low stress training or exactly what you just said where you don't even need to leave your house. Just do 10 squats, go do some laundry. 10 squats, eat your lunch, you know, that kind of thing. Super, super time-friendly and very low stress on the body and very doable low barrier to entry. I've had women, this is women where so many women think of pull-ups is like just something they'll never like can't do it. You know, nemesis are all like just taking that approach. I've had them go from zero-strict pull-ups to like 10, but you can get very strong. Because they have a pull-up are in their house probably. Exactly. You can get very strong. And I don't think people realize that, you know, I mean, it's a cool hack. Rebounding, rebounding, rebound trampoline. It's tough to say like this is the thing, but like that's something if you have in your house and you've got for five minutes a day, massively, you'll enhance your health on so many levels. Yeah, a lot of my clients have on the sprinting side of things because we know that's so great. A lot of them have bought an air bike, put it in their house. They're expensive, but it's worth it to them. They're just like- What's an air bike? Just, oh man. Yeah, you gotta get one. Well, you see it like an assault bike at the gym. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, assault bike. Bike that grandma had in her basement, but if you go hard, you go, you like die. Like, you know, it goes super max, like super fast. But I mean, small investments. I was thinking like a hoverboard bike, like an air bike, like something like- Like, there are bikes with fans, you know? Yeah, yeah. But you can sprint on them, rarely, fairly safely, much more safe than running, obviously. Yeah. And they'll just do that randomly throughout the day. And like, it's a great option, especially if time is an issue, scared of the gym, whatever it is, you know, 20 seconds on, and then move on with your day. It's not that fun, but it's quick. Yeah, I think people think if you're not sweating and like breathing heavy that you haven't done anything- No burpees, right. Pilates is- I would do these micro movements, like, five or eight times and think, well, that was nothing in the next day. I'm like feeling it. So, yeah. It's just a mindset shift, and I love the snacks throughout the day. Yeah, yeah. So killer. The inversion of the paradigm is- this is something I've written about a few times, is that you could- you could for life maintain incredible everything, incredible shape, incredible everything, pretty basketball health, leanness through one all out 400 meters sprint every single day. 60 seconds. That's a little less. Easy. Yeah. And you can actually- now that's very difficult for most people to do, but you could translate that to an air bike. Yes. Like, if anybody's ever tried one single all out sprint on an air bike. 60 seconds. Yeah. You have tried that. Yeah. It's- you can't start. People can't start there. They'll throw over past out. Absolutely. Yeah. That alone would keep most people in really good shape. Just one minute. Yep. One minute on an air. You're just literally taxing, you're moving through creatine phosphate system, you're hitting lactate thresholds, you're causing cellular adaptation, just like pushing really hard one time. One time. Yeah. For 60 seconds. And you're saying Joel, that that would be enough for- I'm saying if you've never did anything else in your life, just that 60 seconds. You had to choose something. Yeah. One thing. This is one thing. And actually, the air bike's rated second on- they've measured this stuff out, so they've measured like the little watts. These things. Yeah. It's second only to an all out 400 meter dash. So like all out 60 seconds on it. And we say for- like we say for most people to listen and yeah. Yeah. But like, point being is like that that teaches the deeper paradigm where exercise is not about calories. It's about creating a signal. Yes. And so it's like, oh, you don't have time to create a signal once or twice a week to express the best of your genetics to create nutrient partitioning to upgrade your hormones. Like, I think that's a mindset that people can adopt that'll change the game. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It's amazing. Just like, just like boil it down to like, hey, if you did this for one minute a day for you'd be increasing your healthy longevity, basically. Here's a crazy thing. That sounds like an amazing deal. Like, six- wait, wait, even until my 60 seconds of the long I do six seconds a day. Most people would not do it because it's so difficult. It hurts. That one minute difficulty. They'll avoid it. They won't do it. You know, I have, I don't know, this is a can of worms and we probably want to wrap it. I'm always I'm torn right now. Just where I'm at with my work and my clients, everything with this conversation where you don't it doesn't you don't need an hour a day necessarily. And there's lots of different ways to make it work trigger session. You know, you have to meet people where they are and life is busy. I mean, I'm a mom at three kids. Like, I'm we're busy, you know, but and your message like sometimes time goes to zero. Sometimes you're the CEO, sometimes you have twins and stuff comes up, you know, and and you're a hack about like, hey, you can you can combine strength and you know, you know, anabolic work together, which is a great hack to but on the flip side of it, at a certain point, people have to as far as they're in control create a life where some training time is a part of it. Yes. And I just feel like no one, a lot of people just have not done that, you know what I mean? We're in so they they hit 40 and they have all these problems. And then they're like, well, I just I can't fit it in because I say yes to too many things or I it's like the modern American lifestyle just doesn't make room for that being a normal part of life. Even if it's just within reason, like I look at my training schedule, it's a bit much I work in the gym and it gave us the best. He's created a life for me where I can literally train an hour a day and I like it. Most people don't do they don't time for that. They don't like it. You know, I know that but like you've got to make some time to do this stuff like VO2 work takes a little time, strength work takes a little time. Once you get to maintenance, it's even less, but you got to get there. So I don't I'm always like going back and forth between the two things because I do look at kind of a lot of the people I work with and they have not built a life where there is any space for that. Like it's a zero-sum game and they just it's not there. Well, how about this? Like if you treat exercise time like meetings and it were scheduled and maybe you only have time on a meeting on a Saturday to give the 30 to 45 minutes fine. Then during the week you need to have tools to deploy that are clear that might only take five to 10 minutes. It could be that mobility stretching routine. Five to bed and rights is a very old school mobility routine that like increases longevity like crazy. It's super good. You know, the five minute core workout but like doing something every day and getting into doing some kind of input builds a massive amount of momentum. Yeah, momentum is a good word. Yeah, I'm sitting here giving all the excuses why women can't work out, but the truth of it is that can't be an excuse anymore. There's help. We can feel better. There is hormone replacement therapy. You can heal your gut. You can regulate your nervous system. You can do all these things. So find some help. Get that taken care so you can get back to movement. We can't just accept that this is my lot in life. I'm just getting old. So what the doctor says that to you say, nope. Right. I mean, you get one body. Exactly. You know, you get one. And you know, you either invest in the earth or just rust out. I know. I say that all the time. You get a taken care of. You get a tuned up. You get your oil change. I use the car now all the time. Any more about our cars than we care about our cars? I've heard that before. I've literally heard that before. So many times. Yeah. Do you have thoughts? Well, yeah, you hit it when you said daily. That's the trick is daily because the problem with daily for most people is the prescription they're given. They literally cannot fit that into the world ecosystem. They're in. However, the body responds amazingly well to daily inputs. And so the first foundation anybody needs to create from themselves is 15 seconds. Like 30 seconds. In my first book, I likened it to the same allocation you give to your teeth, like toothbrush time. You're going to take a minute and you're going to take care of your teeth today. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. I don't care what happened. You're brushing your teeth. Right. That gets priority, right? The cultural blowback if you don't do it. Right. So create that for your body. And then you got to populate it, working up to 30 seconds and then a minute. And then that becomes your non. It's same as your if you don't do that, then you don't brush your teeth that night. That becomes kind of an experiment. Like don't brush your teeth if you didn't do this. Right. But it's that daily that creates the profound results over time. And here's a stack. I think like doing it when your stomach is empty before you've had food is like is is a kind of subtle win. Like it's a good deed after you exercise. And like if you're about to have a meal and you don't and you have that this like take the five minutes like do it right there. Do the small things. Just tag it to that. I get you know you're then you get a you get a you know you're going to eat. Yeah. You're going to reward right afterwards. And there's a nice little window. Yeah. I like it. Poggle's dog. Yeah, exactly. We need to train ourselves. We need to condition ourselves. I love it. I love it. I got a dog and that dog makes me walk twice a day. Oh yeah. That's a great hack. Especially I live in the coldest of cold. Yes. I literally would have been in my house for the past eight months, except she wants to walk twice a day and she will not leave me alone. I look. Yeah. Do whatever it takes to get you to move in. I think you have to. I have a client who the other day said that she's like apparently I don't care enough about my health to walk. But now that I've got a dog. I care about the dogs. I know we're wrapping. Give me one thing on this. Yeah. Yeah. I think the walk you can actually underutilize platform. Yep. The walk is not just a walk. It's like it's that time where you can do stuff. So if you did a walk and you're okay with being kind of weird in the neighborhood and you're able to skip or you're able to do a little quick interval or you're able to walk backwards or you're able to do something like this. You can turn that into a connective tissue joyful movement play practice. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Oh, you want to come on a weird walk. Find me an Arizona. There's a weird guy in every neighborhood. 100% I am a guy. It's Dr. Anthony. He's been here for a long time. That's what the weird shoes. I love it. All right, y'all. Thank you for joining and water break this week. We hope you guys enjoy the show and we're sorry you missed the summit because you aren't here this week. But I'm keeping to be able to follow everybody. Fatherfitproject.com. Father.com. Okay. Joel website. uh deepnutrition.com. Okay. Dr. Tab. Fast to faith.com. All right. Well, thank you guys for joining water break. Thank you guys. Thank you.