It's time for truth, a ministry of truth family Bible church in Middle-Tonight, Ohio. It's time for truth exists to glorify God through the edification of His saints in our local church, and for the benefit of the church around the world. I am your host Pastor, Danny Steinmeier. Well, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the podcast, wherever you may be. Thanks for making us a part of your day. It is a privilege for us to be able to speak to you in this format, and we're grateful for another opportunity to talk about the London Baptist Confession of Faith, number two, 1689. What did studio once again is Pastor Gabe Render from Stone Mountain Baptist Church, and looking forward to our discussion again today. Wearing my 1689, you know, I can't see, and did that on purpose just for you. You know, if we only had video, you would see that we had faces for radio. But instead you got your 1689 shirt on, and I do not have a 1689 shirt. So you are winning today. You know, it's okay. You can get one at Reformed Sage, I'm pretty sure, as we've just came from. I also have my beautiful pillars of truth for Baptist churches. Hard cover addition and everything. Yeah, good old particular Baptist heritage, you know, press there. That's good stuff. Very good, very good. Well, if you want some family worship resources, there you go. Well, last time we were in 1689, we were covering chapter 8 of Christ, the mediator, and at a wonderful time, speaking about his person. And what it means for him to have been chosen before the foundation of the world to be the redeemer and mediator. And we talked about those concepts. Really looking at his person. Who is Christ? What is it that we worship? Looking about his nature in the Trinity, the second person of the Trinity, his divine nature, his human nature, and that coming together without confusion, or what was the other language, composition, without conversion, composition, or confusion. Right? And so all of these things speak to who Christ is. We're going to continue in that today in paragraph number three. There are 10 paragraphs in this particular chapter. In paragraph three, we continue to speak about the person of Christ. And now we move much more to the idea of his human nature. We'll then also eventually get into Christ and his work. What does it mean for him to be the redeemer and all that was purposed in him? But to begin with, we're going to talk about chapter, excuse me, paragraph number three of chapter 8 of the 1689. So Pastor Gabe, would you please read this chapter for us? Is this paragraph for us? Can you give us chapters, paragraphs? We're talking about paragraphs. No problem. So paragraph three says, the Lord Jesus in his human nature, thus united to the divine and the person of the Son, was sanctified and anointed with the Holy Spirit above measure, having in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, in whom it pleased the Father that all fullness should dwell. To the end that being holy, harmless, undefiled, and full of grace and truth, he might be thoroughly furnished to execute the office of a mediator and surety, which office he took not upon himself, but was there unto called by his Father, who also put all power and judgment in his hand and gave him commandment to execute the same. All right, good stuff. So speaking about his human nature, thus united to the divine as this paragraph opens, just again highlighting the reality of the hypostatic union, the divine and human nature's united in one person, truly God and truly man. And in the person of the Son, it says, was sanctified and anointed with the Holy Spirit above measure, having in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, and it highlights various scripture passages about that, such as Psalm 457, Acts 1038, John 334, Colossians 2, 3, Colossians 119. All of these different passages will highlight a couple of them, but they speak to, uses this language in the confession because it's really looking to the biblical text and the descriptions about Christ. We'll read a couple of them, Psalm 457, you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness, therefore God, your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions. And so that's looked at as a messianic portion of the Psalms, speaking about the future coming of Christ. Acts 1038, how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil for God was with him. And so once again we see what the founders form those who wrote to the 1689, they were steeped in the scripture, synthesizing, organizing and explaining what it is that the Bible teaches. Absolutely. So sort of the hinge transition from the last paragraph after this one is the last paragraph really focused on the fact that Jesus is truly God and that he has a true human body. I reference the the calcinolean definition, last episode, I read from the end of it last time, I'm going to read the beginning this time. The calcinolean definition and confession says, we confess our Lord Jesus Christ, perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood, truly God and truly man, there you go, RC, of a reasonable soul and body. And that's the phrase that's very helpful, is a reasonable soul and body. That's what we talked about last paragraph, this idea that he had, the infirmities of humanity, but he also has a spirit. He gives up the spirit when he dies. And then the second paragraph says, consubstantial with the Father according to the Godhead and consubstantial with us according to the manhood, yet in all these things without sin. And so we highlighted that Jesus had to be truly God and truly man for the office of mediator to take effect. And so this paragraph now is talking about sort of what qualified him, sort of that qualified substitute that Pastor Danny referenced last paragraph in last episode, what qualifies him in his earthly ministry to actually take on that role as the perfect Godman. Well, it's his office of being the Christ, being the mediator, being the Messiah. And so it's the fulfillment of those messianic prophecies in him, the uniquely qualifying, that anointing, if you will, of the Holy Spirit, that makes him the anointed one is what we're focusing on in this paragraph. And that requires him to be full of God's nature and deedy to the end that he being wholly harmless and undefiled, full of grace and truth, he might be thoroughly furnished, execute the office. And so this is now essentially listing Christ's qualifications as the Christ, as the Messiah, to carry out all that we're talking about in this chapter. Yeah, that's really good. And I think we don't appreciate enough the reality of his qualification, that within his nature, it was determined that he would be fully adequate and equipped to do that which he was covenanted to do. And I think that's an important point. It says, which office he took not upon himself. And I like that phrase and that recognition that in this role, he is fulfilling, he came to do his father's will. So he's not, this is not a individualized or any sort of usurpation. This is not a rebellious son taking it upon himself to do that which the father was unwilling to do. And it's nothing like that, right? It's a full unity of purpose in mind in full equipment and deity and purpose, not just as a rogue God, if you will, but one who is, who is, was I say, which office he took, not a point, he did not just take this upon himself, but he's actually came with humility doing the will of his father. Yeah. And even in the the Garden of Cassemony, when we have this phrase of, you know, this cut pass from me, again, that's the demonstration of his frailty and his infirmity as a human, but it's not the God had been split in their will, that even his humanity calling out, recognizing the distress. It's not that Jesus in his deity is distressing over the wrath of God. He's doing what every human being would exactly. So it's his shared humanity in that moment that says that while his divine, you know, nature and will is perfectly at peace with the decision and yields exactly. So even though he says the words made this cut pass from me, there was no part of his being. He's not running. It would actually yield it. He was, he set his face to Jerusalem to go suffer and die. And that's exactly what he did. So it's important that we understand when we think about Christ as both God and man, that different parts of the gospel narratives will emphasize one nature or another. And we have to synthesize them. We have to bring them together and see the true picture of who Christ is and not pit them against each other. Because that's what the critics want to do. That's what the, you know, the skeptics want to do is they want to look at the statements of Christ and they pit his natures against each other. And you cannot do that. And that's such a big deal because especially in my growth and connection with various, various people, we dealt with the divinity of Christ issue at my college. I've told a story to many before, but I'll just kind of share again. There was a guy that I was from my hometown, shared my same name. His name was Dan. And he was a very evangelistic young man. But he initially started with, and this could be another relevant discussion. There's lots of things to talk about. There's Kurt Cameron in his denial of conscious torment or the doctrine of hell and rethinking the doctrine of hell, for instance, the pre-slob. Well, that's, it's a very slippery slope. And interestingly, that's where this guy initially started. Here, all the Theobros in college, we're talking about flirting with annihilationism. Well, that's what we're debating and we're trying to wrestle with this friend of ours who was an annihilationist and he believed it. Well, then he goes to Israel and he goes to, I think that's, there was some influence there that maybe was perhaps subtle. It might have been overt for him, but it wasn't always, it wasn't revealed until later. But he comes back from Israel and he comes back denying the deity of Christ. And so that became a significant, a significant issue. And what that is, what you just said is so, so true. It's not because there is, it's not because the Bible doesn't speak about the humanity of Christ. It does. It speaks to him receiving. It speaks to him, it speaks to him being doing the will with the appearance, like just like creation appears to be old, was created with the appearance of age. There is the appearance that Jesus is other than at times with some of the language. It's appearance that Jesus is other than God. Because of the realities of his humanity, which identifies that he's also doing the will of the Father. And yet, and so you have all these passages that do speak to especially the humanity, but it's a pitting against the person, the unique nature. There's no one like Christ and pits against him so that you explain away that which is also clearly communicating, revealed in the scripture. And so the issue of the divinity of Christ is such a big deal. It's because we can overemphasize this humanity. And you can also say, well, he's also, you know, not man. He's just, because that was another aspect, right? It was trying to deny that he actually is a wonderful thing about church history as you can find heresies that go on both sides of the road, right? Two ditches. And he's definitely divine. That means he couldn't have been human. And that's where the apostle John is like, hey, if you deny that he's coming to flesh, like you're of anti-Christ. That's where the Muslims go. They'll do like the water. Well, if you have a bucket and you pour water in it and you pour two different things of water in it, it's 50% of each. It's not, you know, it's like you're thinking about Christ completely wrong. He's not a bucket. He's not, he's not a shell that needs to be filled up. He's God, right? Like so, so you have to actually create a whole different compartment. And what it really is is it's actually we start making part of one. We make God in our image. That's right. We have to bring him down to our level so that we can twist him into what we want to say about him so that we're in control. And I mean, we could do a whole series on just like Christological Heresies. I preached to Colossians a couple of years ago and I preached a whole sermon on the one phrase that Jesus is is Lord. And I was focusing on the nature and work of Christ in the sense that I mean, in the first couple centuries, we have denials of his deity. We have denials of his humanity. We have weird conflations of those as well where people are like, well, he was born without deity, but then he took on deity. Or people that he was, you know, I mean, you have everything from doseditism to, I mean, Aryanism to everything. I mean, there's, we could probably go on forever. So for those of you that would like to do an overview, I would encourage you just to look up Christological Heresies and look at some of the different terms, most of them are named after the heretic who coined the idea. But when you look at these things, see how easy it is to screw this up. It is extremely easy. And this is why we again are so thankful for precise language, not only in scripture, but from our church fathers, from their reformers, to be able to use precise language, to be careful to speak well because it is so easy to muck up the concept of the hypostatic union and commit heresy. And I've talked to brothers who don't even realize they're doing it. You and I are trying to be very careful with our language, even here today. Yeah, about different things. Did God change or not? Did he take on flesh? Well, no. But I mean, there was, it took on flesh. It's hard. It's hard. So yeah, trying to be as precise as we can, but to try to communicate, that's what it's beautiful about. We want a bad analogy, Patrick. Yeah, no bad analogy, Patrick. Yeah, analogies are wonderful until they're not. But yeah, so this is a beautiful way to communicate. The deity of Christ and yet recognizing his humanity altogether, and that he is receiving gifts from the Father. And once again, we just see the perfect experience of humanity that he goes through and becomes the perfect man to, you know, we receive gifts, he receives gifts. And yet, yeah, at the same time as God, our minds just are blown. And it's an amazing, worshipful thing. Well, even just the language of God being the one that gives him the power and the judgment and the authority, Jesus repeatedly says that throughout his ministry that he does the will of his Father. But we also see this concept in 1 Corinthians 15 that when he has submitted everything under his feet, that he gives over the kingdom to the Father, it's like he returns the gift. The turn of favor. You know, and then what happens? Well, then he rules and reigns forever in the consummated earth. So it's not that he gives it up, because this is what the Jova's Witnesses like to argue. It's like, well, clearly he's subordinate and he's giving it to the Father. And it's like, well, no, that's not the end. That's not the tell us of this. What it's saying is that he recognizes his mission is in fulfillment of the Father's will. And the Father just turns around and then Jesus rules and reigns over it. So it's not that it's an abdication of his authority or that he's somehow less than the Father. It's backwards. But the other thing I think it's important to Keon before we move on is that word of surety. It's talking about his office is not only as a mediator, one who stands as our advocate between us and God, but also our surety or our assurance, if you will, and that's exactly what the Holy Spirit's talked about as well, is that Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit, the indwelling and the new birth that Christians experience, we have an assurance of our salvation, a surety, if you will, that the Holy Spirit is the guarantee, if you will, of our salvation or a sanctification and ultimately consummation with Christ. But all of that hinges upon the act of Christ as mediator. And so that's why the language here talks about him being the surety, even though we do see a language applied to the Holy Spirit as well. Again, the Trinity at work. Yeah, not separated. Having distinct ministries, but yet united and actually not, you can just say overlapping, I mean, how we want to say it, but yeah, that's good stuff. Yeah, I see that. All right, paragraph number four, this office, the Lord Jesus, did most willingly undertake, which that he might discharge, he was made under the law and did perfectly fulfill it, and underwent the punishment due to us, which we should have gone and suffered, being made sin and a curse for us, enduring most grievous sorrows in his soul, and most painful sufferings in his body, was crucified and died and remained in the state of the dead, yet saw no corruption. On the third day, he arose from the dead with the same body in which he suffered, with which he also ascended into heaven, and there sits at the right hand of his father, making intercession, and shall return to judgment and angels at the end of the world. Beautiful. Yeah, lots of stuff there, a couple of clarifications and questions that we can answer, moving through this, but we'll begin at the beginning. This office, Lord Jesus, did most willingly undertake, which that he might discharge, he was made under the law. What's the significance of being made under the law? I would you first say that. Yeah, so he's accountable to the law, which means he's then also the one who can fulfill the law. So the righteous demand of God is that we need to perfectly keep the law of God. And so being under being born under the law of God is, again, speaking to the fact that he is born into human history under the old covenant in a time in which yet without sin. So he's a true human. He's the second Adam, Romans 5, Paul talks about, who's born under the law. So he's accountable to the law. As the God-man, it's not that he's outside of that covenant. He's actually operating within the covenant, and so he is the true covenant keeper. He is the one who can actually fulfill not only the mosaic law, but ultimately the law that should be written on our hearts, which is the moral law that is transcendent, like to remind people that the law of God did not begin with Moses. It's from creation. And we see this in the Ten Commandments and the fact that God's penalties, if you will, are sort of formulated in Moses, but there is penalties for death, even in the garden, if you were a post-garden. We see their sin actually requires the death of an animal already. So we see Sabbath, headship, all these things are grounded in creation. And so Jesus is born into the world that he created that is under this covenant of works, if you will, as covenant of God's law that navigates everything. And he navigates that perfectly. The only perfect covenant keeper there is. I think it's important to highlight one what you said in terms of he is born under the law in terms of the law of the laws that be written on our heart, the law that was there at the beginning of creation, for he is the creator and it's woven into our humanity. But also the fact that he is born a Jew, he's born under the law of the mosaic covenant to where he actually is true Israel, the concept of corporate solidarity, that he fulfilled and was obedient. At every point in which Israel failed, he succeeded. And we see the recapitulation of the story of Israel in the life of Jesus, which is an amazing beautiful, beautiful temptation, even in the world of God. The temptation, the issue of the issue of out of Egypt I've called my son, which at first glance, that's not a prophecy. But when you recognize that Jesus is true Israel recapitulating the experience of Israel in his own life, in baptism and all these different things, we see in him the perfection of his law keeping. And when Jesus speaks to the issue of the Sabbath and he says, I'm Lord of the Sabbath, he's not disobeying the Sabbath, he's not breaking the Sabbath and saying, well, I can do whatever I want because I'm Lord over it. He's actually giving the proper interpretation and living. He's under it in the sense of his humanity being placed in Israel as a Jew, as a first born and all these things. But he's also revealing the true interpretation lived out as the God-man in such a way that it really provides that, he says, and did perfectly fulfill it, speaking of every element of law that man would be actually accountable to God for. He succeeded. Yeah, I mean, even just if you look at the ministry of Christ, the concept that he's wandering in that the Son of Man has no place to lay his head, this picture of the wandering of the wilderness, that his entire life, 100% agree, and I love that you brought that up, is that it is representative of what Israel ought to have been in many ways. The response to even the column of smoke, pillar of fire by night, we have the moment of the transfiguration, and we have his baptism, we have similar events in his life that are these supernatural experiences, and yet for him it is perfectly revealing the Father, perfectly revealing the Spirit, perfectly revealing the Son, and we see even his disciples being in awe of that. So yes, he is the one who has qualified then, being born under law, he is the one who is qualified now to be that great high priest, to be the true king, to be the true prophet, because he is one of God's people, so to speak. And obviously, a fantastic resource for this entire chapter is just to read the book of Hebrews. I mean, the entire book of Hebrews emphasizes over and over how Jesus fulfills all these things, and yet he is greater, greater than the angels, greater than Moses, greater than all the priests, after the Order of Melchizedek, he fulfills it in a way that only he uniquely could. I feel like outside of the book of Exodus that I've been preaching through, Hebrews has been the most frequent cross-reference go to to to to to define New Testament, correlation and application. Yeah, he, just like you said, read the book of Hebrews and you really have a significant understanding of his perfections and his superiority as he fulfilled everything perfectly. And then it says, and underwent the punishment due to us. So speaking immediately here of the substitutionary atonement and the wrath of God that that fell upon him, which was actually directed at us because of our sin. And he, in his, again, his mediatorial work, he takes the punishment that was due to us. Why is that important, though? I guess, obviously, I'd like to think most of the people that are listening to this podcast probably share our view of the atonement. But let's spell it out for him. Like, why is it not sufficient for God to simply wave his hand and say, you've been forgiven? Why is it that he has to actually suffer and die? And it says, being made sin and a curse for us and during most grievous sorrows, right? Like, why, why did he have to suffer rather than simply just come and declare us forgiven? This is part of God being both just and the justify of the one who has faith in him. The issue is, is God, when we speak about the nature and attributes of God, we find that God is just. He's holy and he's just. And so therefore, in scripture speaks to the reality that he does, he cannot overlook sins. He cannot all sin must be accounted for and punished. And that's the consequence of sin that's revealed at the very beginning. That death is a consequence and is a just penalty for sin. And so, for God to save and to forgive, this sin actually needs to be dealt with. You can't just wave the hand and be like, I never mind. I guess it's not that important to me. The reality of the holiness and justice of God requires that justice be satisfied. And so what we find in Jesus is a substitute who takes upon himself the justice of God in wrath being poured out upon him that was again meant for us, but it makes it identifies reveals that God is just in his forgiveness, that sins cannot simply be overlooked. And the extremity of which he suffered, I think also speaks to the severity of the weight of sin. It wasn't that simply Christus came and died, a simple dynasty. He's a little lethal injection or he just lived a perfect life and then his died of old age. Now, he suffered unjustly. He was the only real victim that the humanity has ever known in the sense that he actually suffered and he experienced it excruciating. That's where we get the term, by the way, excruciating out of the cross from the cross, an excruciating death, the most painful death. Why? Because sin deserves extreme punishment. We have sinned against an infinitely holy God. And so even the most, what we think to be minute and finite sins are actually worthy of great pain and sorrow because we have sorrowed the one and only holy and just and gracious God. But in addition to that, he's not only suffering extreme pain as a way of emphasizing the weight of our sin or the emphasis of our sin, but he's doing it intentionally as our substitute. So we see both God's grace and justice, as he said, manifest on the cross that we see at the same time, God's love and justice are, as the hymn says, flow mingle down. This idea that we see God's eternal purposes in the covenant of redemption and this act of mediation happening at the cross. Christ's suffering for us is important for us to be able to understand and relate to him as our Savior and as our Redeemer because we look upon that image or that picture in our mind of suffering on the cross and we recognize that should have been me. And I think that drives us to, again, marvel in God's grace towards us that this is the debt that he has paid on our behalf. Now, very good. And I think that we won't devend all the different the different views of the Atonement, the governmental view of the Atonement. We just highlight it briefly before the concept of the ransom view of the Atonement, right? The ransom view, meaning that actually what Christ was doing, that's actually communicated by C.S. Lewis in the Chronicles of Narnia, the idea that Aslan becomes slain as a payment to the witch. She's the one who demands the blood and that's the one that frees and is an Edmund that is actually a toned and that's actually not what we believe Scripture teaches. It's actually a legal, a satisfaction of divine justice and divine wrath wherein God's wrath is propitiated by the work of Christ. And so that's what's being communicated here in shorter form, of course. The idea of his undergoing punishment that was due to us. Well, let's continue here with the paragraph number, where are we at? Number four. And it says that he was crucified and died and remained in the state of the dead yet saw no corruption. This speaks to the being in the grave and actually dead, right? So that we dismiss and the swoon theory and he didn't actually really die, but no, he actually was dead and stayed dead. And we don't believe that he went to hell. So when we have in the background here because of the language, some of the apostles creed and the idea of the harrowing of hell kind of. Right. And so the reality is as the divine man who suffered on the cross and he received the wrath of God that he received the rejection of the forsaking of God because of the sin that he bore, that he did not go and suffer in hell for his sins. Do you have a comment on why that would be significant or why we don't believe that? Yeah. So there's multiple ways of interpreting, you know, our church for one, we say descended into Hades rather than hell to try and help clarify on that. So what I believe happened and what I teach happened when we talk about descending into Hades is rather what we see this concept of him, setting the captive free. And so we see that there is resurrections that took place when when Christ was resurrected. We also see this idea of people being brought into paradise. And so my interpretation of that is that that Christ is not going to suffer further under God's wrath. This idea that God's turned his face away in a sense that somehow the deity of God has been split. No, we don't believe that. We don't believe that he had to endure further trials. The wrath of God in hell, the wrath of God being poured out upon him on the cross was sufficient. And mind you, even the wrath that he endured, this is what's amazing about the Atonement on the Cross is that you have, he's dying for both the Jews and the Gentiles in this moment because he's got King of Kings over his, you know, over his name in multiple languages, Jew and Gentile languages. And who does he die for? Well, he dies at the hands of his own people at the hands of the Gentiles. And so you see all of all of the earth, the Abrahamic covenant being fulfilled here, but ultimately what is he dying for? Well, not just because of these people, but because God's wrath needs to be poured out upon him as the curse, that's sufficient. That cup of wrath that he drank down, if you will, the cup that he spoke of in the garden is the cup of God's wrath upon the cross in his death. Not a continued suffering in hell as some medieval scholars would argue. So I think I think it's perfectly fine to confess that he descended into Hades, but how I would define that as many theologians have is that that is speaking to him going into Abraham's bosom and declaring victory over death, liberating the souls that are in Abraham's bosom, resurrecting them into paradise to be with him in heaven until the, until the judgment and declaring victory over, over the demons who are in gloomy chains of darkness that Peter talks about. I think, I think that's what it's speaking of, that he descended into the Hades as a conquering king, not as one who is to suffer further is how I would articulate that. Sure. Yep. I, I get that. Yeah. We, so we don't say that phrase because I don't think it's cardinal. I don't think it's, it's especially necessary in terms of and, and extremely clear as to all that took place in that, in that period of, of him being in the, in the tomb. It's sufficient that he was crucified, dead, buried, and rose from the dead. That's actually, in the nice increase. Well, and because that's what composes the gospel, like the gospel doesn't include the part of, oh, and he communicated, you know, victory to the spirits in prison or different things like because I think there's, there's enough, just my view and how, how I would do that. I don't think it's, it's, it's helpful, but the clear thing that we're required, is that required? And I think the clear thing here that's, that's, I think, carefully communicated is that, he's, it says, remained in the state of the dead, yes, on no corruption. So it's, it's recognizing it's not communicating anything about continued suffering in, in, in, nothing like that. Yeah, it's talking about his physical body and it's talking about how this body did not undergo corruption. And that's an important aspect. Which was a prophecy. Correct. Yeah. So the cool thing about three days, like people don't think about this. I don't think they, they marvel at it as much, is that this is when you are legally declared dead. You have to be in the grave for, because people would be like, you know, sick, and they thought they were dead, they bury him, and then they come back to life. Well, they, they weren't dead, right? So to be legally dead, you had to be in the grave for three day, on the third day, you're legally recognized as dead in that system. But when does the body begin decay, past the third day? And so there's this picture, if you will, of, he was in the grave just long enough to be, actually officially judicially dead, but not long enough that his body saw corruption, because the anointed one would not see corruption according to scripture. And so again, who else but Jesus could be the Messiah? No, it's almost like this is according to plan, you know, like, it seems like it. It seems like there's some, some overarching ruler and almost like God knows what he's doing. Yeah, I'm not weird. He says on the third day, he rose again from the dead. We've talked about this in our Sunday night, fundamentals of the faith as we've gone through the components of the gospel, the importance of communicating, acknowledging that the fullness of our salvation does not end at the cross, but it, but it's includes the empty tomb. And I, one could also argue that it's, that it includes the ascension as well. Just the gospel without the ascension, right? Exactly. So, but, but, but a key component that we tend to just, you know, just pass over too casually, is the reality that, that he rose from the dead. And so, of course, we, we hailed the cross, but we also hailed the empty tomb. And it says, with the same body in which he suffered. Why is it important to say that it was with the same body in which he suffered? Is there anything that stands out to you that, that they're wanting to communicate there? Yeah. So, the idea there is that there's a continuity from, from our, this life to the next, right? His, his resurrection is not an all-new creation. He's himself. He's the same person. Yeah. Just with, and so, it's not the self-same body in the sense that it's the same one that suffered and died. It's a new body. It's a glorified body, but it's the same body. Well, it's got, it's got, it's got the scars. Yes, exactly, but it still has continuity from the original body. And this is the mystery that I got you. So, I see. So, it's one of those things where it's not, it's not the same frail one that, that died, but it's recognizable. So, that's kind of the issue. What's the interesting one? How do we, how do we have the scars in a perfected body? And what does that mean for those of us with relative infirmities? Well, that's great. So, that's a great point. So, this is, this is where we get fun. All right. So, speculation time. Well, sort of. I think, so, I would argue that Jesus maintained the scars uniquely for the sake of glory and worship. Because in his scars is, is found, won the identification of the one he didn't need to maintain. It's not, it's not, it's not necessary for a resurrection to include that. But the idea is that his wounds are expressed and communicate and they testify. They bear witness to his work. And so, for the purposes of glory, for the purposes of worship, he maintained scars uniquely. But I think it does also communicate that, that you are you in the resurrection and that you, that this, that this body in whatever parts are corrupted due to, due to the fall, due to the, the, the curse. That's the problem. You're saying that would be right handed in the New Earth. If you're right handed now, that would make sense that you would be right handed. If they're, if that's on left handed, that's a, oh, you're left handed. Oh, so does that mean I'd be right handed? You do right with your wrong hand. That's right. The French Sam goes. Anyway. But I think there is a recognizability, right? I think there's something too that when, when you see the Transfiguration, again, that's pre-resurrection body, but it is a, it is a state that is embodied. Okay. So I, so I say the intermediate state is still embodied in some form yet not suited. So here's the way I would explain it. The way, the way I would understand it and explain it is, is that in the, in the resurrection, the, the human body is fitted for heaven and earth. Yeah. Currently, when we, when if someone dies today and goes to glory, goes to the presence of the Lord, you are not disembodied. You are, you are embodied with a spiritual, a spiritual body in some form. I don't have a greater explanation than that, except for the fact it's not fit for this earth. It's not fit for this earth. It's fit for heaven. But in the resurrection, we will, we will, we will have the consummation wherein heaven and earth are united and we will be forever in the eternal state. I believe it's on this earth, right? So I'm a, I'm a new creation model person. So I think that, that this earth will be made new and will be fit for heaven so that heaven comes down. And we are, and, and everyone will receive their resurrection bodies that are fitted for this earth, which is becomes the spiritual realm united with the earth. And it's, it's, it's hard to fathom, but we have the communication of first-grinders 15 and so forth. It's, but, but I think that the understanding is that you are you and the, so those who are malformed, or those who die in a fire, or those, like, that's not, that's not important in the, in the perfected state of what God created you to be, like, for instance, a person that dies as a child would not, would be themselves, but likely in a form that is of maximum, sure, maximum humanity, and I don't know, I explain more than that. I couldn't be, I mean, the kingdom of God belongs to children, so maybe it was all be children and then the, and then you were, yeah, I don't think so, but, that's right. But, but there's something to your you, and it's your, and your identity is connected to your body. It's about to sound like Osteon's. And so you're not given your best love. But no, there's, there's a sense, which it'll be the, the perfected ultimate version of ourself, like, in the sense that we won't have age in heaven, right? But I mean, whatever like our perfected age would be hypothetically, like, it makes sense that we are going to be what we ought to make sense that you'd be created, like, like Adam was created as a fully formed adult male, like we would be, we would be like Adam and Eve in, in the sense of being made fully adult without, without, you know, without stages, no growth necessary. So, yeah, without the capacity to fall, but you, and so obviously we change in our looks and our, and as we, as we, as we begin to die, when we're born, right? There's something to the, to the fact that I think there is something to the recognition that they're saying here that he was raised with the same body in which he suffered. Yet, yet we recognize that was glory, that in that body he was glorified and was able to ascend to the spiritual, he had a resurrection body. Which is why I hold the same creation model, new creation model that you do, I think it sounds like, because I don't believe that God's going to destroy everything and make something brand new. He's a God of redemption. That's right. He redeems. He's going to resurrect. Exactly. The world. And resurrection for it to be resurrection has to have continuity to do that, which came before. That's right. Otherwise, it's a new, we are new creations in Christ, but we're new creations in Christ with connection to what we once were. And a lot of the contemporary conversations, I think, have been helpful to me into some degree in that, which you said earlier, we're not, we tend to be nostate, but to, but to a fault, obviously, because nosticism is a heresy, but the recognition that you actually are your body also. Like, sometimes we think that we are, our true self is our soul. And so we'll be freed from this body for our soul to be our true, authentic self. But yet, yet the importance of your body is actually so tied to who you are that this body, even when it just even when it actually disintegrates into the elements, right, when you turn and back into dust, God, God actually has the blueprint. He has the, he knows you and formed you in the womb. Yeah. And he can reform you as you. It's a remarkable and beautiful thing. But it is, I think it is this, you are the same. In the resurrection, but glorified. No, and I think it's a very important thing because you're 100% correct. We have this weird idea that like, somehow to be spiritual is to be divorced from the body. And again, it's sort of the new age, Eastern stuff, this just infiltrated the ethos of our culture. But even within Christendom, like, we have this weird idea that like somehow, you know, I let you remind people like, Heaven's not the, the final end, right? Heaven is not my home that I'm waiting for. Heaven is the resting place to return me back to my home here where everything is made perfect. And so, and that was something that like, I never thought about until I was in Bible college and I'm thinking through it and I'll send them like, wait a second, Heaven's not the final destination. I actually get a resurrected body. So what does that wait? And I realized like the entire, like, everything that I've been taught, the focus was always on Heaven, Heaven, Heaven, Heaven. Yeah, but, but the new creation is Heaven meets Earth. That's right. It's the Kingdom of God on the Earth. And it is Heaven in the sense because God will do the dwelling place of God. Heaven is where ever Christ is, right? And so to say that, here's here's my hot take to clear that I was, I can't wait to see what the sartuth really look like. That's my whole because they look pretty good now. They look great now. I can't wait to see what the teetons and the and the and the Rockies really look like. You know what I mean? And that's going to be beautiful. That's one area where even though I disagree with Lewis on so many things, theologically, in some of his depictions and his novels, at least in the last battle, this idea that it's like, you know, apples are really apples and that red is really red. There is something that I think he hit on there that was helpful in the sense that we don't really truly understand. Everything feels like, you know, shadowy or see through compared to what will be actually tangible. And that's the cool thing is, is that that which is real is actually that which is truly tangible, which means that physical matter is God's intended design. God who is immaterial spirit actually created a world wherein material is perfect in the same way that that his nature is perfect. And that's powerful. And then took on flesh and and and made it permanent to inhabit it to inhabit it, right? To to to to be closed to because the part devoid of him, it would be just sort of this other thing. But because Christ himself is the one who sustains the very atoms of all essence of all matter of all material, he is the one who sustains and holds all things together and everything has their being in him because they subside within his own nature. And he himself tabernacles and flesh, he has made the world new. And so we have something to look forward to. And that I think is something that, you know, people can maybe overspeculate on, but, but we should also be an on wonder at what the new creation truly will be. Yeah. To just to your comment there about the beautiful mountains as what they are, what, what, what's possible? It's an interesting question too. And I wonder how much, I mean, obviously the curse touches the mountains as well. We think of volcanoes and different than that too. But I'm thinking of of what is revealed are things like, we don't know exactly what the mountains will be like, but pretty sure the deserts will bloom. Right? There are some things of the earth that we, I think, have a sense of their renewal. We have a sense of what, of what curse looks like upon them and what it would look like for them to be watered places again. The mountains almost have an idyllic nature to the mountains and seas. Well, there's something. There's something. What is it about going to the mountains that people love so much? Right? There is, and there've always been emblems, biblically even speaking of, of, of, of, of, of the earth touching heaven and having coming down to mountains. It's the sublime, right? The sublimity of things. We're reading against the waves by John Harris as the men of our church. And I think this is second or third chapter he talks about like being in nature. And he quotes a bunch of older theologians and pioneer settlers about the sublimity of being in nature and being connected to God's creation and, you know, away from, from things. And there is, there is something in that, in that we do recognize the God walked in the garden, right? Where did God meet Moses? And the argument, the argument is that the, that the garden, original garden is a mountain. Like it's not, it's, we're not, we think of it as a very just flat, well, flat place, but it's actually, it's actually a mountain. Well, and what do we see heavenly Jerusalem residing upon? The mountain Zion, right? Like so Zion, heavenly Zion, this, this kingdom of God is always depicted as a mountain. Little, you know, it's really cool name for a church if you're going to throw it out there. Although maybe, maybe Zion mountain might, might be interpreted differently, but a mountain Zion Baptist. No, but, but there's this picture, you're right. Like God reveals his heavenly kingdom as a mountain. Christ is that rock who grows to fill and cover the entire earth with his presence. And so, they won't have bark, they won't have bark beetles. Yeah, no, destroying, destroying the forest. No goat heads in future redeemed Idaho. Yeah, all glory. Corns crossed. But yeah, I think there are different places on the earth that give you an impression. Like, I think there's something to a, you should have a sense of heaven when you go into the mountains. Though, though, yeah, like you like you pointed out, yet there's somehow they're not perfect, but there is a, they're also dangerous to us now. There's, yeah, they're dangerous to us. But yeah, but there are places where you go, where you, where you recognize like waterless places of a desolate crater, desolation. Yeah. Yeah. Of lava covered. Yeah. Like you see there's judgment upon the earth in different places as well. And some places are not like that, are not equal in that way. So yes, there's something more glorious about the mountains. Yeah, there's something hinting of glory. That's that's already there. Anyway, it's pretty fun. I like the chimep�oes personally. You get the farmland in the mountains. There you go. Peak, yeah, all pun intended. Covered with elk. Yeah, there you go. The eternal hunting happy hunting. Oh, I was gonna say, what are we natives now? Let's just take the savage happy heaven. No, we won't get off. That's a completely different, but yeah, there'll be game hunting. I, will we meet, eat meat in heaven and we'll meet, grow on trees because there's no death. I mean, whatever. Anyway, we're gonna get off track. Let's let's we feel good about paragraph four. Do we have to go to paragraph four? Yeah. And then obviously this concludes with Jesus returning to judge. Again, this is sort of the end of of that section that we also see repeated in in the in the Apostles Creed. Jesus is the one who is going to rule and reign, who is also going to return to judge. And so that needs to be part of our confession about who Christ is and what his work is. His work is to rule, reign, intercede, but also to judge those in the great judgment to come. So we affirm that as the Apostles have handed down to us for generations. Very good. We'll just end with us that one with the scripture. For if God did not spare angels when they sin, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the Judgment, that there is a judgment to come. There's going to be a final a final culmination of justice. paragraph number five, which you please give that to us. Yes, sir. The Lord Jesus by his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself, which he through the eternal spirit once offered up unto God, hath fully satisfied the justice of God, procured reconciliation, and purchased in everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, for all those whom the Father hath given unto him. Amen. I think this is it. Yeah, I think this is an interesting and important element of just our of our theology. We recognize that Jesus simply didn't just fall from heaven and land on the cross, but actually his perfect obedience is. Full passive and active. Right. It is such an important aspect of recognizing the imputation of righteousness, the fullness of obedience that he fulfilled, fulfilled the law, and that the righteousness imputed certainly includes his obedience to the to the point of death is obedience on the cross. That's part of our of that which is imputed. But we recognize that the in the purposes of God, being fulfilling the complete and full experience of humanity from the womb to the tomb, right, from conception, from birth to growing up. All of these things were aspects that were important to his ministry as being a suitable savior, wherein his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself was that which was credited to us. Right. So we are credited not just with the crosswork, but the life of Christ. Yeah. So what we're talking about here is this is the groundwork for the theological concept of the double imputation of Christ. Right. So we recognize that we have our sins imputed or transferred and placed upon Christ on the on the death so that we can say as scripture does that our sins are nailed to the cross with Christ, that they died with Christ or in the ground that when we're resurrected, now we're slaves to grace and slaves to Christ rather than our sin. As Paul tells us in Romans 6, but also that Christ's obedience, his righteousness, right, who was born under the law to keep the law. That's right. And that is necessary as well. His his paying of our penalty is sufficient to purchase us to to redeem us, but it is what it is that transference of his righteousness and obedience, the imputation of Christ's righteousness that actually makes us justified before God to be able to actually stand in his presence. And so this is what what you know Martin Luther called an alien righteousness. It's not that we believe in infused righteousness like the Catholic Church teaches where you you kind of get injected if you will like souped up and powered up with a resistance to sin and now you have enough righteousness to stand before God of them, but you can lose it and you need booster shots. No, we believe that we have an alien righteousness that close us. It's been imputed to us. It's transferred to us once for all. Christ's obedience is representing us. So as our mediator, when he stands before God, ultimately when when God looks upon us that he sees not our own righteousness in Christ, but Christ's righteousness covering us. And that's an important thing because it's easy for us as Christians to to think about Christ's righteousness as almost like something we can wield for ourselves. Like it's it's something that Christ has given it to me and now it's my righteousness. Well no, no, it's Christ's righteousness in you. And that's an important distinction because it's not like we were standing on our own credit now in our own merit. We're always standing in Christ merit. His sufficient work, his, his righteousness and that's important for justification to actually work. And further, that's actually what I think is what's fueling the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in this life, the conformity to Christ, both in his sufferings and his righteousness, is that now sin actually becomes loathsome to us. The love God that we used to hate and despise now becomes a delight to us. And we now are walking not perfectly because we're still in the you know, aging war against the flesh and the old man. But now we are desiring to walk in accordance with God's way. That's all because of the imputed righteousness. So Christ's perfect obedience, both passive and active, need to happen in a curve for and that transfer has to occur for us to actually stand justified before God. That's why we hold to the penal substitutionary tomen, you know, understanding of God's salvific work through Christ. And it's why we also would hold to the double imputation of both sin to Christ, but Christ's righteousness back to us. Very great exchange if you will. That's right. That's right. And it's a, and this work procured reconciliation. The beauty of reconciliation, right, is to, is the idea of restoring fellowship, restoring relationship. That, that, when it, if you've ever experienced right alienation, separation because of offense, and yet the ability to forgive and to be, and to restore to where it was before, the idea here speaks to the, the making right of what was wrong, what became wrong at the fall, that, that where man was originally created good, in, in innocent, that, that the, and in fellowship with God, that reconciliation back to fellowship with God was procured by the work of Christ, his life and his, in his death, satisfied the justice of God and procured that renewal of relationship, that return of right standing and fellowship with God. And it says, I'm purchased and never lasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven for all those whom the Father has given unto him. So speaking there again to the Father's hinting back to that, the original decree, all that the Father determined to give to the Son and the everlasting, then the everlasting kingdom, that which is within the reign and jurisdiction and authority of God to be his servants and to be his children. And, and theologically, this within the doctrines of grace is what we refer to as definite or limited atonement, particular redemption. Christ died for a specific people, namely the elect, the bride of Christ, those whom he chose to, to, to, forno and call and love in places of action upon. So, again, it's inescapable. We can have grace and charity towards brothers that struggle to see them in text, but you cannot, I don't think read the Bible, cover to cover at face value and not see the doctrine of election coming forth. And it's one that I think we need to continue to grapple with, not in a dogmatic ivory towerway, but in a way that causes again to be humble and to be an awe, God's favor for us who have merited nothing. Exactly. This has been a wonderful, a wonderful study for us here today and we want to continue this, but that's all the time that we have for truth today and we want to thank you for joining us. And until next time, we hope that you will grow in your love and commitment to Christ in his church. As we are sanctified in the truth, God's word is truth.